[jonian]

not doing is soo good! is not serious by definition. it needs fantasy and will, every time we act differently we' re perfoming it, it helps entering in heightened awareness, of course depending on our dispositions, stalking the self is the not doing of the self; what Don Juan said is also true, is not something that anyone could easily do

[firefox]

Ok, then what is not-doing per se? Doing habitual things another way, doing mindless things (like wiping the floor on the same spot), tricks with vision... All of that helps to gain more awareness and therefore help us choose instead of being automatic. But how exactly does it help to enter heightened awareness (aka left side)? i always thought that the left side awakens in dreaming, and the right side is what is active daily and thus in stalking (in 1st attention).

[ryan]

walking with your eyes crossed, according to Don Juan, overloads the tonal. I've tried it occasionally and it does take complete mental focus. what i want to know is, would the mental focus needed to do a not-doing, like say, walking backwards, be considered inner silence?

p.s. a not serious- not-doing, in my estimation, would be not- wiping your ass in the morning :unsure:

[DrakeWan]

I'd say its CLOSER to inner-silence... since it curves your inner-dialogue and makes it specifically aware of whats going on "outside"

some of my not-doings before even knowing they were not-doings are:

Pulling dried clusters of wheat grains and randomly dropping them as I walk.. or doing the same with leaves...

answering people back with what they just said, only twisting it around.
Like, ... "What do you want for dinner" .... "What does dinner want for you" ... absolutely useless...

I can't think of any other ones off the top of my head... but those are two I utilize often..

In my opinion a not-doing is doing something where you don't quite take yourself or others 100% serious... theres no reason or goal for the action, other than to just perform the action.... You could never tell anyone how it helps you or benefits you in any way particularly...

in a way, it gets your mind off of your daily NORMAL thoughts.. and makes them interact with new concepts and ideas....

in other words, your mind creates reason and logic for the actions, that you know is a horrible reason and incorrect... the not-doing is like new material for the pattern making machine... it will create an order out of the chaos that you have observed.

[firefox]

It was a joke on my part to ask if not-doings can be serious and not serious.
As for effects, i think there are two types of not-doings. First one is doing habitual things another way, which helps to be more aware. Doing new things not included, only habitual things done another way. That's why what DrakeWan wrote about isn't not-doing, it's a new doing: 'Pulling dried clusters of wheat grains and randomly dropping them as I walk.. or doing the same with leaves...' You don't usually drop anything as you
walk. Or this: 'answering people back with what they just said, only twisting it around' A new doing, too. Not answering could be a not-doing.
The second type is concentration on things usually unnoticed - shadows, etc; gazing, and other tricks (like tonal overload). Stops the inner dialogue and builds inner silence.

[DrakeWan]

well its good to see that, it made it some-what clearer to me what it is.. its somewhat a method of stalking the self then.. because it's catching yourself doing a ritualistic thing and doing something else....

but why would don juan get carlos to arrange fire-wood in funny ways? .. over and over.. its a new doing aswell..

I'll give an example and get your response I hope..

Say for instance I was working with another person, and they asked me to 'throw a nail in it' ... talking about nailing a piece of wood together.... would it be a not doing to actually throw the nail.. ? .. instead of doing what one would normally do.. ?

[firefox]

would it be a not doing to actually throw the nail.. ? .. instead of doing what one would normally do.. ?
What do you normally do when you're asked to throw the nail? If you always refuse and this time you agree, it won't be not-doing of throwing the nail (coz you didn't break any habitual pattern of throwing it). It could be not-doing of saying no, but that makes no sense. You don't say no to all requests in the world.
Let's say that if you usually walk very quickly, a not-doing would be to walk slowly. If you usually sit with your legs crossed, a not-doing would be not crossing them. If you usually hold the receiver with your left hand, use the right one. Things like that.

but why would don juan get carlos to arrange fire-wood in funny ways? .. over and over.. its a new doing aswell..
It is, but it's for another purpose. Let me quote from the fourth book:

..."a teacher must teach his apprentice another possibility, which is even more subtle: the possibility of acting without believing, without expecting rewards � acting just for the hell of it.
...He then reminded me of all the nonsensical joking tasks that he used to give me every time I had been at his house. Absurd chores such as arranging firewood in patterns, encircling his house with an unbroken chain of concentric circles drawn in the dirt with my finger, sweeping debris from one place to another, and so forth. The tasks also included acts that I had to perform by myself at home, such as wearing a black cap, or tying my left shoe first, or fastening my belt from right to left.
...I realized that by making me perform senseless routines he had indeed implanted in me the idea of acting without really expecting anything in return.

[ryan]

So firefox your saying that not-doing can be broken down into 2 catagories.

1. Actions that primarly create "cognative dissanance".

2. Actions that primarly foster "inner silence".

[firefox]

It seems so. One category is about automatisms, the other about how you perceive things. They feel differently, too, the second category of not-doing puts me in a trance state of sorts and makes me feel things very alike those that we feel when falling asleep, etc. The first category never influences me like that.
What do you think? How is it for you?

[ryan]

All I have been doing over the past year is stalking. All my not-doings have been in the context of changing roles and indentities. I was homeless for about 4mo and pretty much everything I did then was a not-doing ie; walking around dirty, sleeping on the beach, your basically an outcast.