[true]

You know, probably everyone gets into Castaneda, or something spiritual with the idea that they will acquire something that they don't have now.
(Thanks, Mr. Obvious!)

The root of this, IMO, is the search for power. We've felt lost, victimized, powerless... and at some point we get angry and want to have some control, and we start controlling people and things around us. Simply acquiring knowledge, as in Castaneda's system, a knowledge that most people won't be familiar with, makes us superior and more powerful and in control, in the know... we have the truth, or at least more truth than 'they' do.

This should all be observed. Watch your intent. And remember that power is one of the natural enemies of man. It, too, is just as illusory as fear and clarity.
All your ambition, all your goals, are related to power and acquiring something.

I'm not saying give it up and be an average human.
I've been saying there's nothing average about being human.

Anyway, I'm not prescribing behaviour for anyone either. I'm just reminding you what you have to look forward to. Search, find, acquire... go crazy. The result will be the same as when you thought you were powerless. Then what?

Don't just agree with me. Don't give up your search. Find out for yourself. I'm just saying this so maybe you'll find out quicker.

[silk underwear boy]

In many respects, I was more provoked by wanting to remove things from my life. Bad habits, social controls, judgements, etc. These are things which discourage a natural flow of 'inherent' power, in the first place.

Beyond that, I certainly understand how the search for power could cause problems. That seems to be the problem in itself. Especially for those who enter with expectations of such gains. Unfurtunately, most of us do not have a Don Juan to meet with like monsieur Carlos.

The knowledge of applying knowledge is what's important, not knowledge itself.

[sub]

[true]

Hi Silk.

But aren't you going to acquire something by removing these items from your life? Even if it's peace of mind or one's 'natural' state?

Why do we want these? Who wants them?
And how do we know we don't already have them?
Who said they're worth having?


This may be off the subject of power a bit, but these are the questions I've been asking lately, because I find that everything is a myth, a story, that I've been told. But we're told the story, the fairy tale, in such a way that it puts a longing in us, and we start searching before we really investigated what it is we're searching for. This idea of 'love', the idea of 'freedom', the idea of 'enlightenment'... How can anyone know what these things, (or no things), are except for the stories we've heard? Instead of anyone ever experiencing, 'love' for example, we experience our knowledge about 'love'. It's always second-hand. We drag these stories around about what love should be, or freedom, or truth or whatever, and we compare our world to the stories and inevitably must come up lacking. But if we drop the labels and the stories, life itself is very sufficient... well, there's no one to know "sufficient" or "insufficient". Which, to me, is the natural state. But again, we're caught in the circle: how do I know what is natural and unnatural? How do I know this natural state is something to be desired? Who is measuring "natural" and "unnatural"? The same problem...

This begins to look like a very effective structure for controlling people. And because everyone is in agreement, everyone is looking for 'happiness' or whatever, we don't even question if such a thing exists without the mind-seperation structure that perceives it, that IS it. I'm beginning to understand what the 'flyer's' mind is, as a structure anyway; although I have no first-hand encounters with anything like a flyer, and don't see why they would be necessary. The mind itself as a structure poses all the problems that a 'flyer's' mind could impose. The idea of seperation itself is enough to kill ourselves and eachother, and that is inherent in mind, let alone 'flyer's' mind.

We have the story of flyers from CC, but we also have the Sumerian version of the story of Genesis and the garden of Eden and alien genetic manipulation, which seems very probable to me. I've heard that our brains were not seperated into two hemispheres before that event. Maybe has something to do with the pendulum action observed by seers/ DJ in that center? Maybe these aliens are synonymous with flyers? Who can say? Regardless of flyers or aliens or whatever, we have the direct, immediate concern of mind f#*king things up and searching for who did this won't solve anything. But it's fun.

[silk underwear boy]

Well stated True. I was going to replace your use of the word "acquire" with the the word "return,"... as if by removing these bad habits and such, I would be returning to some innocent state of naturality that I was born in. Honestly, I was discussing what 'first' brought me into the desire to study a spiritual world. But you bring up a valid and 'extremely' important point.

Have you read "Ishmael?" Essentially a concise discussion in the matter of humanity falling prey to their own modern mythology or story (as you began to state). Very appropriate to these questions.

Essentially, I feel the problem is that humans, beyond a shadow of a doubt, think that they are the most important "things" in the entire universe (obvious I suppose). So they have put it on themselves to control and manipulate everything within their capabilities... to be able to one day have that ultimate control.

We have crossed a certain threshold, and so it seems hopelessly manageable, and utterly desctructive from the perspective of you and I. But regardless of the questions that you and I pose and discuss here, I think we both carry a fire that serves as the subtle hand of intet. I don't have to ask questions about that. I need only obey.

*Universal intent is something I remain obedient to.

[silk]

[true]

Hey Silk.

I have a copy of Ishmael somewhere, but I haven't read it. Thanks for the link-referral.

Yes (about important humans) it seems since we've acquired self-consciousness (which some religions have interpreted as God intending us to be masters of creation, above everything else.) we've seperated ourselves from the rest of creation, and this seperation is our own downfall. But maybe we're missing something, or mis-using something. I mean this self-consciousness has happened - it must have been spirit's will or whatever you call that (universal intent). So I wonder if we were to do that only to learn a lesson and return to the natural state, or (what seems more likely) that we return with this additional ability - to go back and forth for some reason. Is this about being co-creators with "God"/spirit or something? I guess we just need to use self-consciousness (thinking) strategically, purposefully, intelligently... and rest in the natural state while not using it. As it is, self-consciousness is using us (humanity).


Will you share your understanding of universal intent and obedience to it? How does that unfold for you, practically speaking? In what way can one be disobedient to universal intent, if you think that's possible? (I won't argue with your answers if they differ from mine, but I would point out the perpetuation of a seperative structure if we believe we can be disobedient to universal intent. That would necessitate us being outside of the universe, not to mention more powerful than the universal intent.)

ps. Is the silk underwear a Taoist sexual yoga reference? I recall reading something from one of Mantak Chia's books about massaging the perineum with silk after orgasm without ejaculation.

[silk underwear boy]

Haha... prior to registering for this forum, I was watching a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie called "double impact." One of the characters in the movie was dubbed "silk underwear boy." It was the first name that came to mind, so I decided to stick with it.

Universal intent. When we think about cave men or even the jungle, there is a sense (since we are on the subject of self-consciousness) that things prior to modern man were in some kind of chaos. I'm not saying this reflects the mentality of you or me, but the general consesus of mankind, indeed, perceives balance in a different light, because man has adopted the responsibility of attempting to "restore order" reflecting his own description of 'right' and 'wrong.' When confronted by truth, one will come to the realization this its actually the other way around. "Modern man" introduced chaos to a world that was already in harmony balance. I can't imagine a cave man committing suicide, or hanging out in the poppy fields becoming addicted to opiates. Modern man also has no real methods of population control because we have milked our emotional selves beyond the "instinct." This becomes a double edged sword, because any real method of population control will unfortunately be considered mass genocide, but if we keep increasing at this rate, the planet will continue to suffer.

So, I don't think man is "consciously" being disobedient to a universal intent. I understand what you mean by saying that man indeed has self-consciousness and perhaps this is the will of spirit - to use man as a tool in some way. To me that reflects the same religious zeal that is expressed in Christianity or any major religion. That is just another way of saying that God's favor man, no? I'm certainly not against any religion, and I will certainly admit that there is a possibility that you are correct about that. I think the only way someone can consciously disobey universal intent, is by abusing power.

But, Universal Intent, to me, is an expression of that original order, without the introduction of chaos. It is the expression of heart more so than the brain. What I mean by obeying intent is simply following the signs of spirit. Carlos spoke on various occasions of having "appointments" with knowledge. Don Juan would say "knowledge is prowling around out there right now and we are going to confront it." I'm really into the science of Symbiot Association (Les Symbiotes) - and ultimately I find expressions of the totality of assimilation in the world of sorcery. Universal intent operates, and the natural order of harmony, and essentially the descriptions of the Tao Te Ching, are the emanations that we perceive as the expression. Seers can see past that expression and view the patterns of intent (energy) directly and act according to those patterns. Patterns, order, harmony, balance, yin-yan, assimilation.

I think that is where one finds the totality of spirit.

[sub]

[silk underwear boy]

In other words, man ate from the tree of knowledge and began to replace universal intent with self-importance.

[Crow]

How do I recognize universal intent? I am baffled by chaos.

[true]

Thanks for the reply Silk.
That was very lucid. I'm with you.

The only part I didn't get was the symbiot association. I looked it up to see what it was about. There were two versions: in cartoons (like spider-man), a symbiot is a parasitic being that latches onto a host, giving it super powers and yet feeding off of it in some way. Then there's the symbiotic association between two living organisms in nature that seems a bit more harmonious, probably like Amanitas and Christmas trees.


I looked into myself about the "god's favoring man" and I have no present religious concept or belief about that. The way it is seen for me is that life (not god) probably wants to evolve or was set in motion to evolve and we just happen to be one of the organisms at the spearhead of that evolution on this planet (perhaps surpassed by dolphins and whales??). I caught some pieces of a nature show the other day and chimpanzees also go to war with eachother and get jealous and exhibit other human "faulty" characteristics. I'm not saying we're the most evolved as a species, but that we demonstrate the greatest potential for the most rapid evolution. So some could interpret that to mean something. I don't know what it would mean. I intend not to indulge in interpretations. But I do know that it doesn't mean that we're better than anything else. I don't think we're here to rule over anything. Maybe we're more able to appreciate the various manifestations of life. Maybe that appreciation serves an indispensable function in the universe. I'm not sure. Probably everything is indispensable if the universe is as efficient as it appears to be.

[silk underwear boy]

Hello again. Apologize for the delay, I've been a little busy.

Thanks for the response True. Although, it seems that you are still saying the same thing, but substituting different words and species in the place of humans. Your ideas may not be wrong... but I am wondering what you mean by the word 'surpass,' when describing how maybe one day dolphins or whales might surpass humanity?

Surpass to what end? What would then be the strategic purpose of evolution?

But don't take my questions with any negative connotation because I certainly do not mean to pose them that way. I know you have thought about enlightenment, paradise, transcendence, etc. at some point in your life. You have imagined some kind of purpose, and developed faith in that purpose. My main area of study is the Ancient Egyptians, and there is so much discussion within the historical context that Egyptians were excessively concerned about an afterlife. I have found deeper truths in their philosophies, but I'm using all these things as en example of how the human mind-set is stuck in depicting and imaging things in a "linear" setting. Time for instance, is always "Point A to Point B," in modern civilization. So ultimately, I'm wondering if you really think creatures are evolving to "higher" levels of something, and if so, what higher level, and what is the purpose of higher levels?

I'll let you respond first, and then explain how Symbiotic Association fits into this. Very interesting stuff. Very Buddhist in its collective appeal.

Crow - as many channels as possible. I suggest starting a new thread wih your question as the topic line. Let us delve deep "and shatter the frozen sea within us."

Peace 4 now.

Silk