[Lilac]

I guess one of the biggest mistakes to do is to think I can do this minor thing and then it will be over. To some that "minor thing" is to have another cigar. To some it's another glass of alcohol. To some it's one more comment - this is mostly my own habit in the Net.

But one cigar is never enough, there's no such thing as "only one glass and then I stop completely", and certainly there is no "I just say this and I'll go".

When I write in English I'm forced to shrink my ideas a lot - they jus't can't be told with all the nuances I would have in my mother tongue. This helps me to have some discipline into my brains...



One question after "what I'm really doing now" could be "is this really necessary". If the answer is "no" and there are buts after that, then it's indulgence.

[blu129]

I'm as secretive as I need to be, and because I'm secretive in some aspects people assume I'm bullshitting them all the time.. lol

But really.. I can understand what Don Juan was saying about ditching the shamanism thing... lol heheh Can't you see the recapitulation happening to everyone at every turn... and the self-importance training all around us..? our media sources are stuffed with ... 'training' and lessons and helping... petty tyrants don't need to be sought after thats for sure... Its in our music our tv shows, our movies... its in us.

Theres so many kids out there soooo screwed up due to irratically moving assemblage points... ... whether its drugs or shitty lives.. its all relative, but all of these 'goth' kids.. or cutting kids are just using different methods to move their assemblage points... although laterally, none of them have any of these tools... impeccability, stalking, dreaming.. many of them just Half-assed stalk missing some of the vital parts that make a stalker a master stalker.... and some dreamers are the same.. most are just lucid dreamers who morbidly believe their dream-worlds, and happenings.

Theres major problems .... open your eyes to the intent of freedom.... the world is crying.

Listen to the shaman of the jungle... who are stuck with none of this knowledge, just dreamers.... or just curers, using dreams.. without knowing of any of the other aspects..

The oil companies are destroying their habitat..

and our reason in the west is destroying our habitats .. (our bodies) ourselves..
Finally with quantum physics the west learns about the nagual... be warned they will consume it for their own benefits quickly..

My mission or path has always been freedom, way before I even started reading carlos castaneda... I had serious bouts with death (born with my intestines out, [no belly button, just a scar]) upon entering this world and the spirit helped me tremendously for its purposes not mine... and coincidentally without knowing it, it was freedom.. So I dropped out of school because it wasn't teaching me what I wanted and I couldn't read the books I wanted because I had school to deal with ... so I had to ditch it.. and working was minimal for me... only when needed, I moved away from home at a young age. (15) away from family, which I've never really considered family ... stumbled around the gnostic areas of learning, learned a lot, a lot that I can apply a lot better now with the knowledge I have, because I can see what they were really saying.. without their horrible descriptions, or my horrible bias upon hearing certain words.. or my utter confusion... so I was either always driven by the freedom for my body, or opinions, or my actions... and my side project has always been trying to get other people to seek the same quest, showing them the things I learn how-ever I can, by using as many different outlooks at possible so they can understand its just a description, but I find it hard because my methods have always failed because I never had the tools outlined perfectly by don juan... with those tools I find it almost impossible not to trick someone into seeing the unknown, or feeling it... but I am still so limited because I have only gotten some of those tools recently and you can't perfect what you don't practice... and since I'm so abberated my inventory keeps blocking my progress... so I need to do a proper recapitulation, but I find it somewhat hard, just moving my assemblage point to those times... plus I have very limited time where I am right now.. working on call ..

but I think we should take Don Juans advice and nevermind with the particulars and we should focus on the path.. which is freedom.. the one with the most heart ever... I think it has literally kept me alive... because by all means I should be dead... I mean they poked my intestines back in with the eraser part of a pencil, they all say I should be dead. by all means none of this is for my self importance.. I'm indifferent to myself in most aspects.. just thought you might be interested...
I just think we need to all maybe help all these 'fools' jump into the canyon... so-to-speak.

sounds like youre bullshittting to me.sounds like non existant orgasms to me.

Plus you cant equate the nagual to quantum physics, im sorry, the two arent related. It seems like an intellectualy nice standpoint..bit like CC with the "eagle rule" but im sorry the two arent the same.

Plus quantum physics is largely unknown to the west, i mean alot of it is still philosophical speculation, so the west have no power over it.

i mean yes at the moment our consciousness affects the outcome of an event. Therefore perception based from the piont of view of consciousness (being time honoured) affects the outcome (nature of the universe.) People still have no idea what happens with the two slit (youngs-go ask your physics teacher) experiment, try slowing down a photon of light and see how it behaves..opps try again logical scientific people. I think it one of themost important and insiring points that carlos points out is that perception is subjective, and if youre considering on a quantum level, (yes we're aiming at a description of "'reality'" (notice double indentation!) human peception alters the nature of the experiment ..ie properties and expected behavour of "matter" of the universe then perception and awareness are key components that largely escape scientific or logistically viable explainations.

my personal viewpoint is that- i dont know, i think that scientifically cc steps out as a scientific empirical viewpoint esp in his first book, however he doesnt keep to strict empirical parameters, doesnt explain phemoneological importantly, and i guess its important cc always comes from a social scientific background rather than say, a logical empiricists point of view. this doesnt take away value of his so called findings, ""separate reality." to me though.

I think its cool to say for example to equate the existance of dark matter with the nagual for example. The reason why the universe seems to be expanding rather than slowing down as expected. Ideas include abundance of neutrinos, or an increased amount of bayronic matter in early universe expansion,..gravity waves, (no ones detected this theoretical particle, although it should exist- theyve put up a satellite for this, so well see.) and the important mass of the Tau neutrino as experiments recently show there is evidence if chance of error in its mass.

its also nice to draw parallels with M theory (theory of everything) we're talking the basis if the wests logic here. science being a tool. with DJ quotes of infinate lines of energy (String theory??) if you want to- although this may not bring about a more engaged state of our interation with the nature of the universe (reality.)

another thing is that they say we are a holgraphic projection of the universe based on p branes and m branes, yeah i can imagine equating that to the nagual in my head. to me it seems difficult to equate this to a macroscopic level to a biological awareness ie human. although essentialy the forces and nature of the matter involved are the same. (ontological.)

I wonder if say on an engeretic level if one becomes awareness, say for example, without consciousnness one would engege in the action of percieving "'seeing'"

any opinions??

[Lilac]

human peception alters the nature of the experiment ..ie properties and expected behavour of "matter" of the universe then perception and awareness are key components that largely escape scientific or logistically viable explainations.

I've read about that measuring the movement of particles alters the behaviour of the particles. But never have I really thought about this with the ideas of the placement of the assemblage point and possibilities to perceive the world in many ways and on many levels.

Holographic model and fractals are my favourites, but I don't get into them at the moment, maby later if something worth sharing comes into my mind.

[blu129]

chaos theory is basic really, it just shows how some large scale systems still have an underlying order. (Google in "Lorentz waterwheel")

Indent: Appparently there is this like top scientist whos getting paid millions just to empty a bottle of tomatoe ketchup. As scientists want to know how this substance behaves (Chaos theory) as they need to predict is behavior for uses in nuclear fusion.

fractals are interesting to as they bear the same appearences as computers when they try to map memory (ie consciousness.) Also some people say they see fractal patterns when taking LSD or MDMA or Mushrooms. maybe they are somehow realted in some pseudo (Or non pseudo?!!) way.

[regicide]

Good question. I'm secretive for the wrong reasons, always have been. But I do see how that can be benificial when you don't want distractions. Lately I've come to the understanding that what I'm doing, and will continue to do, is something with no parallel in terms of discipline, fortitude, balance and sheer purpose. It's also my understanding (i could of course be wrong) that the Rule no longer applies to us. CC and his party broke secrecy and in doing that changed the energetic parameters of the drive for freedom. So for me secrecy really has no pragmatic value in the sense that how would that increase my chances at freedom. I guess in a sense CC and the witches paid that price for all of us. Besides, I don't feel like getting burnt at no stake,, thank you very much :lol:

[BratscheWarrior]

This quote popped up on the Cleargreen site today:
Shamans keep nothing to themselves. To empty themselves in this fashion is a shaman's maneuver. It leads them to abandon the fortress of the self.
~The Active Side of Infinity


No one has brought up (i think) the purpose of secrecy. First, the sorcerers of ancient Mexico had to protect themselves in some way from the Spaniards. To teach openly, practices that contradict Christianity would have meant death to them. For around 500 years secrecy had to happen, not because of a self-important reason, but to preserve their lives! Now how much courage did Dr. Castaneda have in breaking the secrecy! He deserves credit for creating the atmosphere of more openness that we are able to operate in. We might not be talking to each other if it was not for him.

In today's age, the use of secrecy has changed and yet it has not. Would y'all tell everyone that you are stalking them? You'd probably get some restraining orders against you! It's use now is based on the same intent as the old sorcerers. It's protection. We are threatening to everyone who operates as a part of society. And when we do interact with them, do you want to be responsible for potentially screwing them up? To teach someone, i think the Spirit needs to intervene. And from personal experience, if you talk about this stuff to the average man without knowing what you're talking about, you are just wasting air, arguing without any real knowledge. I found myself talking about self-reflection to someone i just met 2 weeks ago and i have never been more articulate or forceful. i might have actually gotten through to him! But the reason i talked to him about it was because i was inspired to do so. With him, i wasn't quite secretive, but not quite open. You just can't talk to people about energy...directly.

[ensonar]

I think one of the main issues with secrecy that I'm speaking about is regarding erasing personal history. Erasing personal history as far as I can see requires that one be quite secretive on many fronts. It requires that one avoid and dissapear from the "past" that one is attempting to erase, and it also requires one to be secretive about that "past" to those who are in the present field of attention.

In general at the moment I still see no way of avoiding this. More times than not, acting in this manner is intensly enjoyable, but at other times it can be difficult, confusing, and somewhat cumbersome.

Thoughts?

[regicide]

My current task it seems has been re-arranging how I view my past. The past for my is the boogey man. I keep it in a ground vault, under lock and key with 24 hr servalaince. And just in case someone tries to break in from the outside I installed motion sensors with automated lasers. Literally.

I've been walking away from people all my life, erasing that part of my personal history was no problem. But in my present field of attention doing it effectively has proved alot more difficult. I don't understand how to do it effectivly. Or maybe I'm just not ready to give up that facet of my reflection. Yet.

[BratscheWarrior]

So how did you literally install a motion sensor with lasers to protect your past?

i too have been walking away from people all my life. Schoolmates, friends, who are just a point in time. They never could get their hooks into me. i was very slippery to them. Unless they come to me, i will probably never see them again.

Here's a way to erase personal history. Just an example, vary it as appropriate to your situation. When you're overhearing a conversation between 2 women you are friendly with about, say, the disgusting habit of jerking off. Interject and tell them that you jerk off often. The awkwardness of the silence after you say that is indescribable!

So about 4 days after my last post in this topic, i ended up meeting someone who has dealings with energy and we talked openly about it. i...was...shaking.