[true]

Greetings ensonar,

Why do you have to interpret and insert meanings into everything? Can't you take something for what it is, it's bare existence, without adding your dialogue to it?

It's just a sincere observation. But, if you remain true to your history, you'll probably read the above and IMAGINE that you've pissed me off.

Can you talk with me without your imagination? I'd prefer it. Why are your feelings about my posts worth something to you?

Here's something new for you (can you consider that everything I say is new and you may be listening with old ears? I bet you've heard that before too. Could it be that just because you heard something or read something, even a hundred times, you may not KNOW it? You may not be APPLYING it?): Try having a conversation without imagining that you know what's happening, that you have any idea who I am or where I'm coming from. Can you just be present with me, first time, never been here before?

If not, we're not having any conversation for me to stick around for. You're talking with your own inner dialogue, not with me.

Listen to this, if you are able to... just listen... don't think, don't think you already know... just listen...

I AM NOT LECTURING, PREACHING OR TEACHING. THOSE ARE PERSONAL, SUBJECTIVELY ASSIGNED ATTRIBUTIONS. YOU ARE TAKING MY POSTS PERSONALLY AS IF THEY ARE TO YOU OR SOMEBODY SPECIFIC. THEY'RE JUST POSTS. I'M SHARING WHAT I HAVE FOUND HELPFUL TO MYSELF.

Now, don't begin to reflect back and study my past posts and point out to me where I'm lecturing and preaching and being personal. Just take me at my word. You don't know anything about me. You don't know anything absolutely. No one does. So would you like to not-do and control your folly, or do you want to think you know something and stay where you feel safe and important?

No one here who has replied to me seems to know how to do that or to be interested in doing that. So if I am not attracted to your boring imaginary projections about me, it doesn't mean anything about feeling hurt or dejected or whether anyone agrees with me. I'm just very real and don't have time for your imagination, or anyone else's.

And in case you didn't know, anything you think you know is your imagination, even if you end up being right about it. As a warrior, you should be so lucky as to never find your feelings confirmed.

Do you get that, or am I wasting our time?

At least answer that last question, since you, and others here, tend to avoid answering any of them. Is it because according to my rules, (and their not mine, nor are they rules) you might have to admit that you are free and have no excuses? You people cling to your books and sorcerers' descriptions and rules because they give you a reason NOT TO BE whatever it is you think you WANT TO BE.

I AM, right now.
What the fuck are you people waiting for? Yes, I know... Don Juan gave you permission to wait. You're a bunch of followers. Drop the games and talk to me. Or you can bore me to death and I'll stop coming around and you can feel better than me since I just couldn't get you guys... I don't get what it's like to be a real warrior, right? I get it fine. I also get that ALL inventory needs to be dropped eventually. How do you know I haven't dropped mine and you're just not there yet? The answer isn't: "Because... x, y, z." The answer is, you don't know.

Can you keep not-knowing? Cause that's what it's like to be a real warrior-seer.

You people know too much for me. I'm not telling you what I know. I'm telling you how I learned to not know. And no one is interested in not-knowing.

And don't argue that if you don't know anything we can't talk. I'm saying drop the useless shit that you think you know... you can maintan the functional portion... just drop the psychological, ego portion.

What is functional? For example, you have to retain knowledge of the language.
What is psychological? For example, that my post "feels" like something; that I "seem" something; that anything you or I say can be interpreted "personally". You don't need the "person" to talk to me about reality.


Do this, and I promise my posts will be short.


But that's all you're interested in...
What'd you say? Less book and more heart? What you want is something personal, and you're asking a non-person to be personal. This isn't mine. But I'm not re-hashing books either. The fact is, you don't know whether I'm being original or not. You can't know. And you should thank the Eagle for that.

If you've seen this "teaching, lecturing syndrome" in others, how is it original to see it in me? You want me to be original, but not yourself? Just let it go. Stop knowing. Stop needing to know. Only the mind gives a shit about knowing, and you're more than that.


Are there any real people here?
As long as you keep offering me your unoriginal internal dialogue externally projected... I'll have to keep offering you my "preaching" to get beyond it.

Would you like to start anew?

[true]

Short version:

Give up thinking you know.
Give up knowing or wanting to know.
Stop wanting to control this.
What are you afraid of?

It's beyond your control.
That's a bare fact.
Why be afraid of what is?
Will you keep trying to ignore reality forever?

Yes, you've heard this before.
Stop hearing it and start being it.


Does it matter if I'm preaching or not?
Calling me a preacher or teacher is just your way of avoiding what you know would be beneficial to do.
Are you really going to argue with me that thinking is good for your 'warrior's way'? Do you want to argue that it saves you energy? I might agree with you there, since you can sit on your ass and not do anything about this. ("this" being the fact that thinking is a direct obstruction to seeing and acting - things warriors do.)

[true]

Greetings ensonar,

Here is my previous post to you. It was very honest and original and could be the basis for a real dialogue. You could respond to my questions, just like I had responded to yours. When you ignore a question, there's something in it for your mind, some hiding and protecting. A real dialogue would be to expose the mind as the nothing that it is, not to protect it.

In a real conversation, one sees a question and one answers that question. Don't answer something else, or avoid it... that would be some other conversation (with yourself).

So here are observations that were aimed at exposing the belief in mind. Add to it the post before about value being something the mind is interested in. Well, here... I'll re-post both of them:

I said:
Well, what I notice is that in this last post you say I'm talking about the obvious and in your post before that you call non-duality an idea and speak of the use of aiming towards it.

Is the existence of the Nagual (as source, not leader of a group) another idea that you like and think could be useful?

Non-duality (Oneness) is what's left when all ideas are absent. The Nagual is what's left when the tonal is absent.


I don't think you're impatient. I think you're not interested. I think your lack of interest may be based on a conclusion you've made, an opinion you believe is more than just a description.

In the moment, thoughts like "heart" and "book" don't arise. I'm not being either. They're concepts that come afterwards due to thinking. "Successful", "more concise", "less pedantic"... sincerely, you're not getting the obvious. You've probably heard a million times that a warrior isn't concerned with success or failure, but you're still thinking in terms of them.

Why do you think it hasn't "gotten through"?


And the previous post:

Carlos' books are much longer than my posts, and you probably made it through them ok. And I'd say the reason is value - you thought they held something of value. You think my posts do not.

Value is another item that concerns the mind which is always seeking to acquire. I'd suggest you drop that, if you can.

Nothing here has any value, as all things are equal, as you said above. But I don't think you know what you said or you'd act accordingly.


Please reply. I'm sincerely interested.
This isn't personal. If I said "you", feel free to swap that term to the general... we're talking about any mind, not yours. All minds are the same. Let's talk about this mind that seeks knowledge and value, etc... Let's investigate it together.

Or not.

I know you replied to the second post, but you didn't address the core issue - that the mind seeks value, needs to acquire, etc. You clarified what it was that you valued (new, original) but as long as you believe in value/unvaluable, you will keep seeking value without becoming a warrior.

Isn't that so?

[true]

Forfucksake:

Greetings.

You said,"I realise now that what seemed to bug me about his/her style was the fact that I heard my own voice sounding just as preachy (remembering a few posts I've made). So for that, I thank you, true."


So basically, you see as you think and think as you see.

Wouldn't you like to get out of that cycle?

You said, "True, a little reciprocity for helping me hear the voice of my preaching...a recommendation actually. Seriously.

Since you seem to like writing about what you are involved with, give it some purpose: Write a book. But don't just regurgitate the same information. Make it useful for a reader, give it some context, come from a different angle; talk about how it has changed your life so maybe a person in a similar situation can apply it and benefit like you believe you have."


Usefulness isn't something I can make for you or anyone else. You know very well that it's a matter of personal power.
People love to hear stories... personal stories about persons... because they're afraid of the non-person, the impersonal awareness, that we truly are. They want to shield themselves from that fact with personal stories.

Could it be possible that I am already aware of how I am posting, and that I strategically choose to post that way to avoid the personal? Knowledge isn't personal. There is no person to whom knowledge belongs. It doesn't have angles. People have angles. My life hasn't changed! lol! And I don't believe anything.

Sincerely,
true

[true]

I was basically just speaking from my feelings, trying to filter them as little as possible.

The feeling I get from your posts is that you're trying to sum up all of the things that you've read into several different posts in such a way as to seem like your giving us little lectures about things which, although interesting to some degree, are nothing new.

I've read all of Carlos' books several times, as well as many books by others. The difference is that they are all stating something new to me. They are all stating something from original experience rather than rehashing what they've read and combined.


I think that message boards like this are useful in the way that people like us can say, "hey, I've got a problem I'd like to ask about" or "I just discovered something amazing this afternoon" or "how are you guys doing" or etc.

Speaking to each other as comrades rather than as people you'd like to teach.

I'm definitely not saying that I think I'm 100% on the mark as far as you are concerned, but these are the feeling I get from you, and have gotten from others before.

I don't get your obsession with things needing to be new. There's nothing new under the sun. Are you a new ager? lol!

How about giving up this idea. Things just are... they're neither new nor old.

But you can maintain your AP on the same position for as long as you like, or you can move it... and everything will be new.

From your posts, I gather that you want the world to bring new things to you so you don't have to do any work.

I've never had this conversation with you before, so it can't be old. But you can listen or read from the same AP spot/inventory as you have in the past.

Why blame me for it though?


I've been using the message board according to your prescription. Did I not say that this is what I've found helpful for myself. I'm not teaching. You're projecting teaching. If I were teaching, there'd be students learning. Do you see any students learning? Do you see a classroom with my name on the blackboard?
I'm just sharing what I know. If you don't like seeing a teacher, stop seeing yourself as a student. Again, why do you blame me for your projections and labels?


You don't need to say you're 100% on the mark. Fact is, you're treating me like a suspect... like I need to pass your test or examination. Is that what being a comrade is about? All this is you... your projecting it on me because it concerns you. I'm no teacher. But you are the established moderator. The question is, are you a good one?

I didn't come here to have you place rules on me or teach me how to make my posts likeable. And I'm sorry I don't have any problems for you to solve. I have discovered something amazing though, but you insist on thinking you know everything about it while your actions reveal you know nothing. There's nothing magical about your suspicions. So keep sitting there, at a distance, weighing my posts, from a distance. Keep intending the seperation. After all, that's what comrades do at a message board, right.

I especially like how you don't want me to leave dejected, but you've made it clear that I should be something other than I am. You deject people, then you feel better than them when they don't stick around. My post clearly said that I don't know what the moment will bring, so good luck if I don't see you. What about that is being dejected or leaving because you don't agree with me? Again, your concerns, not mine. Do you talk with anyone here, or just your projections of them?

Remember when you said "correct me if I'm wrong..."? Well, I'm correcting you.

Now what?
lol!

[forfuckssake]

Miles? Is that you? lol

You said, "So basically, you see as you think and think as you see."

I think so. From the animated series Animatrix (Kid's Story): "There's some truth to your fiction and some fiction in your truth."

You said, "Wouldn't you like to get out of that cycle?"

I was trying to thank you for helping me see/think/realize or, at least, for helping to emphasize that I was still stuck in that cycle.

You said, "People love to hear stories... personal stories about persons... because they're afraid of the non-person, the impersonal awareness, that we truly are. They want to shield themselves from that fact with personal stories."

I saw you would write that.
You can write stories that are impersonal. I didn't say write something personal. I meant "give it some context or a different angle" to help a potential reader arrive at the impersonal. Whether the reader then misses the point and attaches their attention to the stories themselves being presented is up to them. Of course, some don't need those trimmings and just being told it's all mental masturbation is enough.

You said, "My life hasn't changed! lol!"

then in another thread quoted Don Juan:

DJ said,

"There are lots of things a warrior can do at a certain time which he couldn't do years before. Those things themselves did not change; what changed was his idea of himself."

If a reader doesn't attach their attention to what they have habituated or agreed to (while reading a book, for example) maybe they can decide to make what is being presented useful to them, if it changes the perception they have of them self and what's around them; as you have been saying, both of these are one and the same.

You could also write a book without the reader in mind. Fuck them. Do it for your own awareness. Or, as I said, don't.

You said, "You know very well that it's a matter of personal power."

I don't know anything.

"Could it be possible that I am already aware of how I am posting, and that I strategically choose to post that way to avoid the personal?"

Anything is possible.

Grateful,
forfuckssake

PS The reply to me was shorter than those to ensonar- much appreciated.

[ensonar]

True:

I'm afraid I may not have the time or interest in to continue this conversation. I gave it a sincere try, but after the second, third, and fourth lengthy responses to my last two sentence response to you, I have chosen to move on.

If you have a specific question that is not surrounded by miles of dialogue, I would be glad to continue talking with you.

[true]

Thanks forfucksake.

Ensonar, nothing to continue.

[ensonar]

Although I can be an uptight jerk much of the time, I don't totally dismiss my complaints as meaningless. In other words, I think within our argument we both had strong points, as well as weak points. However, I do feel like the argument itself was becoming increasingly heavy and I felt I was getting bogged down in it.

I would like to try and clear all concerns between us and start fresh. Feel free to post whatever you like. I was wrong and downright immature to try and coerce you into being more like me.

[true]

Oh.
I just finished a post to you in another thread before this one was available.

Thanks. A new start sounds great!
I'll release my memories pertaining to you and go back to being present.

Ahhh.

Sorry for taking offence. I'm still maturing.